00:00:00:32 – 00:00:25:39
Clint Loveall
Hey friends. Welcome back. Thanks for joining us as we close out the week by, kind of opening a new chapter here in Philippians. Move into the fourth chapter. To today’s interesting, sort of a feature of Philippians that has gotten a lot of attention and a lot of speculation. I’m just going to I’ll jump in here and read where verse to chapter four, and I’m just going to read a couple of verses.

00:00:25:40 – 00:00:47:35
Clint Loveall
We’ll see if we get through this and then we can move on. But I want to make sure that we have time whenever we get to the next passages, for them to stand on their own because they are outstanding, and they’re going to take a little time to unpack. We’ll see how they go. So, verse two, I urge you, Odio and Cinta key to be of the same mind in the Lord.

00:00:47:40 – 00:01:18:06
Clint Loveall
Yes. And I ask you also, my loyal companion. Help these women, for they have struggled beside me in the work of the gospel, together with Clement and the rest of my coworkers, whose names are in the book of life. So one of the, very interesting wrinkles here, as we get toward the end of the book of Philippians, is that for the first time, Paul mentions what seems to be some conflict.

00:01:18:10 – 00:01:45:02
Clint Loveall
And in one of the very few times that I can remember in his writings, Michael, he names the people involved. And so there are these women in Philippi, you audience, Cynthia Key. And they have evidently at least and a lot of this is speculation, because everything we know about this comes from these verses, but they have evidently had a falling out of some kind.

00:01:45:07 – 00:02:16:28
Clint Loveall
Paul clearly has affection for both of them, has respect for both of them. In fact says very, flatteringly of both of them. They have struggled beside me in the work of the gospel. They they have been part of Paul’s ministry and mission. And so he calls them, urges them to unity, be of the same mind in the Lord.

00:02:16:33 – 00:02:57:31
Clint Loveall
Now he doesn’t mention what may be at issue. He doesn’t mention what may have caused it or the the damage it’s doing to the church. It’s a pretty gentle handling, I would say. By Paul’s standards, but he does. He does want to speak to it. It is evidently important enough to him that he puts names with it and says, I, I hope you two can figure this out, and even calls his companion to help as well to be a part of helping them get back together.

00:02:57:36 – 00:03:02:22
Clint Loveall
Michael, I’ll stop there. Any anything in terms of the text itself you want to add here?

00:03:02:27 – 00:03:36:52
Michael Gewecke
So I just want to point out, two things. One, I think that we have something to learn here from how Paul conceives of dealing with conflict situations because in a moment, my number two, there’s some ways in which we can look at this letter. And I think we should be wondering, man, I wonder if a lot of this letter isn’t written to these two women, because there’s a way in which Paul demonstrates when he wants to address the body, he doesn’t just come out with the command.

00:03:36:52 – 00:04:06:59
Michael Gewecke
He doesn’t just say, do this, think this way. He eat. And now we get that in Corinthians, in some different ways. But I think here you very clearly have a letter in which Paul is laying out a theological argument for the foundation. This is the stuff that matters, right? And then when it comes to the matter, then he comes and says, you know, I urge you both with great respect, be of the same mind, right?

00:04:06:59 – 00:04:31:48
Michael Gewecke
And fundamentally, when you hear of same mind, I think we for at least just a moment, have to have flash across our brains. Where did I hear this idea of same mind before? Chapter two, verse five. Let the same mind be in you. That was in Jesus Christ. Now we have in this passage our appeal again to have the same mind.

00:04:32:00 – 00:05:15:32
Michael Gewecke
It’s interesting when Paul in chapter two lays out what that mind is. It’s a mind of humility. It’s a mind of forbearance. It’s a mind of not grasping for power or privilege, but rather a submission. One’s got a wonder. We don’t know the details as you’ve said, Claire, we don’t exactly know what’s happening between these two women. But one thing I can say confidently is it’s not an accident that this letter has so many themes of Christian unity, finding our identity and finding our perspective within Christ’s identity that it’s fascinating here that these two women, instead of, in many ways, being censured, they’re actually encouraged forward by that theological idea.

00:05:15:32 – 00:05:40:13
Michael Gewecke
And so those two things, I think one, Paul showing us that he doesn’t want to just tell Christians what to do in this letter. He wants to lay out the why and then people to be motivated by it. And then I think the motivation that we see very clearly here is that if Christians are going to work together, if we’re going to collaborate in ministry, there’s going to need to be humility, there’s going to need to be forbearance, because we’re going to bump into each other.

00:05:40:13 – 00:06:00:24
Michael Gewecke
We’re going to disagree. We’re going to find each other at odds of the best way to do a thing. And Paul’s ultimately going to say, well, ultimately, it’s not a question of whether these two women are saved. It’s not a question of if their work has been good. It’s a question of can they recommit again to do the work together in that mind that we’re we’re called to take on the mind of Christ?

00:06:00:28 – 00:06:26:58
Clint Loveall
There’s a real fatherly feel to this idea that, you know, these letters typically are read in the hearing of the congregation, they’re read publicly and kind of imagine when they get to this part, the poor reader is looking out at these two women who maybe aren’t happy with one another and has to say these things, but there is a sense of a father almost talking to children.

00:06:27:03 – 00:07:08:34
Clint Loveall
Yes. Okay. Do you get it figured out? Say you’re sorry. You know, every parent has done that thing. Beyond that, if we could use this text for a springboard, I think the beauty of leaving that in there and dealing with it as modern readers, so I guess so to say, is, I’m unaware of a single church that wouldn’t have people in it who probably don’t love speaking to each other that, yeah, at some point probably haven’t gotten crossways and still hold on to that a little bit.

00:07:08:34 – 00:07:40:27
Clint Loveall
This is this is such. And sure, we could beat up on the church for being a place where that happens because it’s not supposed to, but this is just a reminder of how human we are and the reminder that we as humans are the people in churches. And so to see this written in the pages of Scripture and to hear Paul address this in this very beautiful, profound letter to the church in Philippi, when he says, oh, yeah, by the way, could you two ladies, could you, could you meet in the middle?

00:07:40:31 – 00:08:11:52
Clint Loveall
Could you remember that you’re connected in Christ? Could you you’ve both worked with me. You’re written. Your names are in the book of life. So let’s let’s do better. Let’s let’s have some grace toward one another. And interestingly, though we know nothing about them, this passage has been incredibly important for what little it says to spur on those kind of conversations in churches.

00:08:11:52 – 00:08:38:39
Clint Loveall
I mean, I’ve heard this preached. I’m sure that I’ve preached it, you know, because it’s just it’s just so true to life that as we try to be church together, inevitably we bump into each other. And when we do, we have to do that as people who share the mind of Christ. And that has something to say for the times that those relationships get strained.

00:08:38:43 – 00:09:09:37
Michael Gewecke
I think that we would be remiss if we we ran by this text also without pointing out that here Paul is in many ways, by using this language, of urging Paul by speaking about the struggle and the work of the gospel, is honoring these women in a really substantial way. And quite frankly, we don’t have a significant amount, a quantitatively large amount of information about the leaders of the early church.

00:09:09:37 – 00:09:31:42
Michael Gewecke
In our scriptures, we have some things recorded in church history and tradition that gets passed down. But Scripture is rather sparse in a lot of that. You’re going to get it from a few select places. And I just think it’s worth noting here that this is not theological. Paul’s not making argument for women’s leadership and what extent it should have.

00:09:31:42 – 00:09:52:52
Michael Gewecke
He’s not he’s not trying to say, you know, Bishop, and that’s not what’s in mind here. In fact, I think it’s striking that Paul doesn’t need to have that conversation. Paul doesn’t need to point out structures and how much know he just these women struggle beside him for the sake of the gospel that is in the ancient world, not an insignificant statement.

00:09:52:53 – 00:10:15:45
Michael Gewecke
I think it needs noted that for Paul to urge these women to to try to speak to them in this way is a way of honoring and saying that their role in the church was significant. The the place that they played was clearly important to Paul. He he clearly had a close relationship, and that relationship was built on mutual work and trust.

00:10:15:50 – 00:10:31:57
Michael Gewecke
And Clint, that’s worth noting when we see it, that women don’t often get called by name in Scripture. And here they are. And it’s worth noting that it is done with great respect, and it’s done with recognition of the work that they’ve contributed.

00:10:32:02 – 00:11:00:39
Clint Loveall
Yeah, I agree with that, Michael. I think sometimes, unfortunately, because there are verses that say less than positive things or at least can be interpreted to say less than positive things about the role of women in church. We tend to forget about a verse like this where Paul calls them coworkers, right, Clement, you Odia syndicate. Paul doesn’t seem to be splitting hairs of who’s who here.

00:11:00:52 – 00:11:28:52
Clint Loveall
He he calls them coworkers and says they’re written in the book of Life. Their names are in there. And I think, you know, it is good to keep that in mind. And then as a, you know, as a devotional or maybe as a preaching text, I think we can imagine that these women are divided over something deep and profound, maybe some theological argument.

00:11:28:57 – 00:12:12:07
Clint Loveall
My own bias is that in the church, more often, it is a small thing that people get sideways about, that people get, develop contention over. We always did it this way. And you want to do it that way, or you didn’t ask me before. We are we used to do it together. Now you you know, whether you see this as something that is weighty or whether you see this as something trivial, it it’s probably there, probably both in there and in some sense, whatever caused it is inconsequential because Paul in front of the church, is naming two women that he knows to be important in the church and saying, hey, if you all let

00:12:12:07 – 00:12:46:39
Clint Loveall
this continue, you can do damage to other people. They need to see you as as leaders, as my coworkers, as people who have struggled with the gospel in the work of the gospel. They need to see you do better. They need to see you reunited. And, let’s. Yeah, again, we have to do a lot of speculation on this text, but I it not only is it kind of fun to speculate, I think it’s in many cases I would say speculation isn’t helpful.

00:12:46:44 – 00:12:51:05
Clint Loveall
This might be one where I’d argue it probably doesn’t hurt.

00:12:51:12 – 00:13:14:51
Michael Gewecke
A healthy holy imagination, I think, opens up this text in an interesting way, and I know that we’ve been here and that this isn’t a lot of content, but I think it’s worth noting that there is another theme here that has been picked up earlier that we should quick tease out, because all the way back in chapter three, verse 20, we have this idea of the citizenship which is in heaven, right?

00:13:14:51 – 00:13:42:45
Michael Gewecke
This idea that like Christ or by God’s power, our lives, our, our frail human existence will be renewed and transformed into this eternal and beautiful citizenship and heaven. Note this language here. The rest of my coworkers whose names are in the book of life. There’s been Clint tons of speculation over the years of what a book of life is, and and where it is and what’s in it and how you get in it.

00:13:42:45 – 00:14:09:07
Michael Gewecke
And can you be taken out of it. That, I think, is missing the point. I, I think the point here is that these women, these people, as Paul describes them, are those for whom the gospel has redefined their identity. Paul has zero question about the end, the the direction in which their lives is taking them. They are in the way of Jesus.

00:14:09:12 – 00:14:32:57
Michael Gewecke
And I just think this idea of the book of life that doesn’t save us from the conflict, right? But being the people who are Jesus pointed in our direction, that doesn’t mean that we’re going to get through our church time without the conflict and without the bumping into each other and needing again to strive for the one mindedness.

00:14:33:01 – 00:14:53:54
Michael Gewecke
And I don’t think, Clint, that that necessarily means that we’re all going to concur, that we’re going to get to the point where we all can see it. The same way. I do think it means that we are able to listen and hear and engage, to be humble and and then to chart a path that is one that we can take together.

00:14:53:54 – 00:15:21:57
Michael Gewecke
And that is a beautiful gift. If you’ve been in the church, if you’ve been in a season where you’ve seen that lived out, it’s exceptional. It stands out. And I think part of that is it allows us today to realize you’re church, you’re not broken. If you’re in the midst of a moment in which people are struggling to do this, hear these words, have some imagination as to what it might have been there, because I suspect it’s not too different from what you’re experiencing now, and then turn to Christ.

00:15:21:59 – 00:15:24:40
Michael Gewecke
That’s been the argument the whole time.

00:15:24:45 – 00:15:36:20
Clint Loveall
You know, Michael Paul is so good. I, I if I were writing this letter, I, I think I would tack this on at the end right.

00:15:36:25 – 00:15:36:46
Michael Gewecke
By the way.

00:15:36:46 – 00:15:57:16
Clint Loveall
So and so and so could you, could you get it figured out. And you guys have been great and I hope you can make it work. Paul does not tack this on and that is intentional. And look where he puts this. We’ve just had this beautiful passage about pressing toward the goal. And what does he say? If you are mature, be of the same mind.

00:15:57:16 – 00:16:21:58
Clint Loveall
And if you think differently about something, this to God will reveal to you. And then he says, join me, brothers and sisters, there are enemies of the cross, but our citizenship is in heaven. We have the body of his glory and the power that enables us to do all things as he subjects them to himself. Therefore whom I love and long for my crown, stand firm in the Lord.

00:16:22:03 – 00:17:02:42
Clint Loveall
And then in that context he slips in so be united to one another in this very specific case. And then in just a few verses, he’s going to cover that over as he then moves toward this culmination of the letter, rejoice and celebrate and give thanks, and do the work of Jesus Christ. This is this is, wisely and I think theologically significant in its placement that this is, this is no accident that these words end up here, I think.

00:17:02:42 – 00:17:10:23
Clint Loveall
And I, and I would argue just again, shows Paul’s a sharp, sharp man.

00:17:10:28 – 00:17:32:21
Michael Gewecke
Correct. Correct me if you think that this isn’t right. I wonder if a fair summary of this section might be that we shouldn’t expect church to be a place where we all agree all the time, or where there’s an absence of conflict, but rather that church is a place where the people are committed to that unification in the mind of Christ, that we are.

00:17:32:25 – 00:17:57:50
Michael Gewecke
We are always in momentum and movement towards that single mindedness church is never going to achieve, a place where all of that is perfectly held. And Paul is, is laying out the argument for what is our goal, but not necessarily an expectation. Clearly, these women there is conflict, and the expectation is we can bear with one another through it.

00:17:57:55 – 00:17:58:17
Michael Gewecke
Yeah.

00:17:58:19 – 00:18:03:49
Clint Loveall
And those become the moments that we have an opportunity to practice the gospel.

00:18:03:54 – 00:18:20:24
Michael Gewecke
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for being with us here today. It’s a joy to study with you. I hope that this has been encouraging you. So give it a like helps others find it in their own studies. Definitely subscribe so you don’t miss studies like this one. And also, just a quick heads up for all of you. We’re off next Monday.

00:18:20:31 – 00:18:23:11
Michael Gewecke
We’ll be back on Tuesday. We’ll look forward to seeing you all then.

00:18:23:16 – 00:18:23:58
Clint Loveall
Thanks, everybody.