00:00:00:45 – 00:00:38:45
Clint Loveall
Hey friends, thanks for joining us. We are continuing through the Book of Job, the 11th chapter. We have been saying there are these cycles of speeches. Three of job’s friends each get to say something, then job sort of responds to them, not always to them directly, but says something after they do. And today we move to the third speech in the first cycle of speeches, the first time we hear from a man named Zulfikar, and we’ve been saying this week that there is a kind of an escalation that happens and, so far falls right into that pattern.

00:00:38:45 – 00:01:02:01
Clint Loveall
So right out of the gate, he says some things here, pick up in verse three, should your babble put others to silence? And when you mock, shall no one shame you? For you say, my conduct is pure. I’m clean in God’s sight. But all that God would speak and open his lip to you, and that he would tell you the secrets of wisdom.

00:01:02:06 – 00:01:30:19
Clint Loveall
For wisdom is many sided. Know that God exacts of you less than your guilt deserve. So, Michael, we’ve I mean, we have escalated from only a few chapters ago where these three friends sat with Jobe for a week in silence. They’ve now been offended. Yesterday we saw a very harsh comment about job’s children. Today we get for all of job’s suffering.

00:01:30:19 – 00:02:00:15
Clint Loveall
It’s less than you deserve, right? That so is so offended and so put off by job’s claim that he doesn’t deserve what he’s experiencing there. He says, no, no, it’s actually you deserve more than you’re getting you. You’re you’re getting off easy, so to speak. And it’s it’s, it’s an interesting characteristic of this book that it it shows us a kind of, increasing conflict through these responses.

00:02:00:19 – 00:02:21:09
Michael Gewecke
I think that some of the way that these words don’t land on us quite like they should either, because, you know, maybe it is time bound, maybe the way that the language is framed. But you got to remember that this book is poetic in its structure, that it’s not the same as saying it is poetry, but there’s a lot packed into it that I just think you got a point out here.

00:02:21:18 – 00:02:49:42
Michael Gewecke
Should a multitude of words go unanswered, and should one full of talk be vindicated? That reminds me a lot. Not everyone will have seen it, but the the musical Hamilton. Hamilton. There’s these scenes where they’re having cabinet battles and people are dropping mics, and I think that’s a a modern cultural analog of what’s I mean, this is this is an in-your-face insult to what Jobe has said.

00:02:49:42 – 00:03:15:58
Michael Gewecke
Jobe has been dealing with. How do I reconcile the fact that I have been righteous before God? And God, who we want to think is righteous, has done unrighteous things to me. And he’s making this case against these two other friends who’ve made the point when Jafar speaks, basically he says, the worthless words need to stop. We need to get back to reality.

00:03:16:03 – 00:03:43:21
Michael Gewecke
Let’s be very clear. Can you find the deep things of God? Can you find the limit of the Almighty? Higher than heaven, deeper than Sheol? If God is doing these things, who can hinder him? Verse ten, basically so far has identified that the correction that Jobe needs now is that job has crossed the line in his lament, and he is now speaking out of turn.

00:03:43:21 – 00:04:00:34
Michael Gewecke
He’s speaking out of place. He’s speaking, quite frankly, stupidly. We’re going to, he goes on, to say that basically we have a person here who has just said, I’m done with this crap job. And he he says that right to job’s face.

00:04:00:39 – 00:04:43:03
Clint Loveall
Yeah, it’s not it. It’s possible that you could argue that in verse 12, he’s speaking in generalities, but he says here a stupid person will get understanding when a wild ass is born human, you have to at least acknowledge that’s possible. He’s pointing that directly at job, inferring that job is a stupid, like a wild ass. Imagine, you know, again, try to try to try to imagine this scene where you show up to a friend’s home who is suffering and has lost terribly, and is physically ailing.

00:04:43:08 – 00:05:19:59
Clint Loveall
And they say this isn’t fair. I haven’t done anything. God has done this to me. And you find yourself saying to them, no, no, no, you deserve worse than this. You you deserve. You should. It should be worse for you than what you’ve gotten. It. There’s no part of that that could be considered pastoral care. I, I will give this to so far as he continues, he he does put before Jobe a positive path.

00:05:20:04 – 00:05:51:43
Clint Loveall
If verse 13, you direct your heart rightly, verse 14, if iniquity is in your hand, put it far away. Do not let wickedness reside. Then you will lift up your face without blemish. You will be secure, not fear. You will forget your misery. Your life will be brighter than noon. Darkness will be like morning. So again we see a rebuking of Jobe for being guilty.

00:05:51:48 – 00:06:22:30
Clint Loveall
But the hope for Jobe in repenting the idea of his friends is that that he’s clearly guilty of something. And adding to that, he’s now guilty of claiming that he isn’t guilty. But if he would realize that, if he would heed their wisdom, that he would, he would be able he would be ready to be blessed and to be restored, which is.

00:06:22:35 – 00:06:43:07
Clint Loveall
At worst, at best unhelpful, at worst, incredibly arrogant and possibly offensive, which will leave for the end of the book. But yeah, we’re not we’re not making we’re not making progress toward reconciliation here, Michael.

00:06:43:12 – 00:07:05:36
Michael Gewecke
No one, by the way, I don’t think this book wants us to think that that is in fact, I think it’s increasing the gap that is part of the teaching here. I do think your point about the positive being offered is fair. I think that positive thing being offered once again, hinges upon the assumption that these three friends are making.

00:07:05:36 – 00:07:47:42
Michael Gewecke
Whether or not Joe makes the same assumption. We’ll leave that to your interpretation. But these certainly so far as making the argument here, that. At best, Jobe is being stubbornly sinful. At worst, Jobe has set himself against the Almighty God. And if that is the worldview, if those are the two possible ranges of options, then so far as rebuke here could be read as are kind of whole hearted invitation to get back on the right path.

00:07:47:42 – 00:08:22:10
Michael Gewecke
Right? If if he believes that Jobe is suffering these things because Jobe at some point took the wrong path, and these words are words of correction to get him back on. Then though, it’s blunt. Then, though it’s challenging and uncomfortable, you could understand how a person gets there. What I think this book has done spectacularly well is it’s armed us, the reader, with this information that Zafar and Jobe don’t have.

00:08:22:15 – 00:08:52:46
Michael Gewecke
We know the beginning of this story. And so, Clint, I think as we turn our attention to job’s reply, what’s what’s so masterfully done? This story is we know that job’s got more footing than what Zafar thinks, and that is that is the thing that makes this book so difficult for us to, I think, lean into is because it is more complex than Zafar wants Jobe to believe, no matter how strong his argument is.

00:08:52:51 – 00:09:21:39
Clint Loveall
I think the interesting choice that the book has made in showing us ahead of time that the friends are wrong, is that it gives us the opportunity with confidence to evaluate and examine what they’re saying. If you were unsure of the fact that Joe was innocent, you’d have to weigh their words and say, well, maybe they’re but we know they’re wrong, and we know that on the front end.

00:09:21:39 – 00:09:50:56
Clint Loveall
And by telling us that early in the story. Yeah, the book allows us to evaluate what they say, which sounds reasonable except to Jobe and except also now by extension to us, because we know it’s not accurate. And then as we move to Joe’s reply and he says quite a bit here in response to Zafar, critical phone beginning, he says, yeah, no doubt you are the people and wisdom will die with you.

00:09:51:01 – 00:10:18:19
Clint Loveall
But I have understanding as well as you. I’m not inferior. Who doesn’t know these things? I’m a laughingstock to my friends. I who called upon God, he answered me a just, blameless man. I am a laughing stock. And then he goes on to say to say you know, with God is wisdom and strength and power. Jobe never do we.

00:10:18:19 – 00:10:51:55
Clint Loveall
We talked about this briefly Tuesday. Jobe never denies that God is sovereign. That God is able, that God is strong and powerful and in control. He only argues that in this case, it is God Himself who is against Jobe for no, for no obvious reason. I guess we could at least leave that there. But. So yeah, Jobe says.

00:10:51:55 – 00:11:36:19
Clint Loveall
Yeah, I know what you wise people know. We all know that. But I’m telling you, I have called upon God and he’s answered me. I am a just and blameless man. And that sounds like boasting to us. If we heard someone say that, we would think, oh, here we go. But again, Jobe is saying of himself what the book has already told us of him, and I think that’s that’s important because Jobe is stating what we know to be true, what we know to be fact in in fact, Jobe is stating of himself what none other than God has stated of Jobe that he’s righteous and that he’s upstanding, and that there’s no one like

00:11:36:19 – 00:11:49:52
Clint Loveall
him. We’ve heard that not only from the narrator, we heard that from the Almighty. And so again, the, the, the interplay between these voices is really fascinating in the way that the book puts them in conversation.

00:11:49:57 – 00:12:07:35
Michael Gewecke
So Jobe starts gaining up speed. He starts talking about, yeah, let nature let the birds let the. They’ll all tell you this to be the case. He starts reaching further and further to make his argument. And I think it really takes a turn here in chapter 13, verse five. If you would only keep silent, that would be your wisdom.

00:12:07:35 – 00:12:29:47
Michael Gewecke
Speaking to the friends here. Now my reasoning. Listen to the pleading of my lips. Will you speak falsely for God? Will you speak deceitfully for him? Will you show partiality toward him? Will you plead the case for God? Clint, isn’t this a fascinating way to turn this? Because it’s to say so. So you’re going to be the ones advocating for the one doing this to me?

00:12:29:52 – 00:13:04:33
Clint Loveall
Yeah. And if we back up even a couple verses, Michael, verse three of 13, I would speak to the Almighty and I desire to argue my case with God. But as for you, you whitewash with lies. You are worthless physicians all. If only you would keep silent. I mean, that’s so again. Whatever started as supportive and friendly and compassionate has really devolved into a a battle of philosophies.

00:13:04:33 – 00:13:36:27
Clint Loveall
I suppose we could say maybe we could even say theologies. And it it’s interesting. Maybe it’s even fun at some level to read this as conflict, which it is. But I think in the context of the book, it’s less personal conflict, though there’s personal in it, but it’s, it’s it’s a battle between understandings of the world. It’s a worldview battle that involves God.

00:13:36:27 – 00:13:46:01
Clint Loveall
And, and that’s, I think, why the language gets up. So, so, salty.

00:13:46:06 – 00:14:21:05
Michael Gewecke
I think we see how this, like oil and water separates in verse 15. See, he will kill me. I have no hope, but I will defend my ways to his face. Job is making clear that the wisdom or the so far, the so called wisdom. You see verse 12 there. These proverbs are of ashes, right? The wisdom that these friends are bringing there, there is just fence lis out of clay, or they the defenses of clay.

00:14:21:05 – 00:14:50:16
Michael Gewecke
Excuse me. I think what we need to well, we need to grapple with is job in the face of the cruciform kind of crucible of suffering. He is grappling with the truth. What? What is the truth of why this is happening to me? He’s determined that as best as he can tell, he’s not the reason. He’s not the source.

00:14:50:16 – 00:15:12:00
Michael Gewecke
We’ve already said today. God has said in the beginning of the book that job is righteous. So now when these friends come and they want to just say, here are all the reasons, those are the things that fall away. And instead what Joe wants to push for, which I think is ultimately the cost of it, is the thing that makes us so uncomfortable.

00:15:12:14 – 00:15:31:52
Michael Gewecke
See, he will kill me. I have no hope, but I will. There’s a defenseless ness to his proposition. I can’t stop God from doing this thing, but as far as it depends on me, I’m not going to sit here silently. I’m not going to just let this bad happen, and I’m going to pretend like it’s going to go away and that God’s fine in doing it.

00:15:31:57 – 00:15:45:54
Michael Gewecke
That’s a kind of faith. We’ve said this in previous studies. That is a form of faith. It’s a form of confidence that one can do that before an almighty God, even if he’s willing to admit I understand God’s the one in control here, I think.

00:15:45:59 – 00:16:15:57
Clint Loveall
I think you’re on to something, Mike. I think there is a shift in this book. Yes, part of job’s complaint. The heart of it may be, is that this suffering has happened to him. But as we progressed through the book, a second arm of that becomes that God is absent to God, that God won’t speak with him, that he that he can’t confront God, he can’t ask of God that God won’t show up.

00:16:15:57 – 00:16:45:04
Clint Loveall
And if if we move into verse 20, this is, a prayer of sorts. And Jobe says, only grant these two things to me, then I will not hide from your face. The first thing. Withdraw your hand from me, and do not let dread of you terrify me. Secondly, then call, and I will answer, or let me speak, and you reply to me.

00:16:45:09 – 00:17:13:36
Clint Loveall
And I think this twofold prayer these are job’s complaints, right? That you’re tormenting me. Stop tormenting me so that I could have a moment and and then either you answer me or let me speak to you. But but the absence, the silence, which is always, I think, in many ways the worst part of suffering has now swallowed Jobe up.

00:17:13:40 – 00:17:44:22
Clint Loveall
Make me know my transgression, am I sin? Why do you hide your face? Why do you count me as your enemy? And? And then he goes on to say again, you are God. You can do all these things. But I deserve an answer. I should be able to, It’s not only that that God has done this to Jobe, which Jobe believes.

00:17:44:27 – 00:18:06:04
Clint Loveall
It’s also that God won’t give Jobe, a moment of explanation or a a moment of presence that Jobe feels not only suffering, but he feels alone, abandoned in his suffering. I think that I think that’s increasingly true through the narrative.

00:18:06:09 – 00:18:31:57
Michael Gewecke
I think that as we go further towards the end of this speech, there is a way in which this becomes more cosmic. It’s certainly becomes very natural in the argument, this idea that, there’s hope for a tree because it can sprout again. There is, the question but mortals die or they laid low, humans expire. Where are they?

00:18:31:57 – 00:19:00:10
Michael Gewecke
Like waters that go from a lake or river that wastes away it. You begin to see he’s wrestling with this reality that if God is the all powerful one, the sure and the the mountain gets cut down and turned into something else, sure, the water goes away, it becomes something new. But this is one man’s life. This is one man’s experience, and all he wants is not for all of his days to be happy.

00:19:00:10 – 00:19:26:42
Michael Gewecke
He just wants his day in court. He wants his day when he gets to say his peace. And these friends, their counter-argument is you have no peace to make. You have no word to say. And I think that’s what is so fundamentally discordant between these worldviews. Only, Jobe, has the the gall, the wherewithal, the only he has the drive underneath him that would push him into that encounter with God.

00:19:26:47 – 00:19:53:25
Michael Gewecke
And and so therefore, he has a kind of boldness. But that boldness is also the kind of thing that is driving a wedge between him and and these friends, I mean, clearly so far kicks off with a very, very harsh it’s not even a warning, really. It’s a rebuke at the, right from the start. And, and you can see how quickly these two groups have now been pushed to different sides of the room.

00:19:53:33 – 00:20:37:14
Clint Loveall
Joe’s friends are unwilling to concede that an innocent person could suffer. Jobe is unwilling to concede that he’s not innocent in the midst of his suffering. And and that is the impasse that they can’t get around. They can’t. They can’t get over it. And that’s the interchange here of these two worldviews. From job’s perspective, though, as one who believes that he’s suffering unjustly, he again evokes this second question if a human suffers at the hands of God unfairly, who do they appeal to?

00:20:37:19 – 00:21:08:24
Clint Loveall
His friends won’t listen to him, but he doesn’t seem I know, I think he’s I don’t think he loves that, but he’s not particularly bothered by what they think. He’s going to argue with them. But but ultimately, job’s job’s disheartening comes from who do I talk to? Who? Who do I take this case to? The judge is the one who has sentenced me unfairly.

00:21:08:29 – 00:21:29:55
Clint Loveall
What do you do with that? And that’s not everything that the book to it. When we get to the end of the book, we can revisit whether that’s accurate or not. But I think at least at this point in the story, that’s where Jobe is coming from. I’m not saying that’s where you need to be in the book, but I think that’s where Jobe is.

00:21:30:00 – 00:22:00:03
Clint Loveall
And, this incompatible assumption that he has and the friends have. And again, we who started the book with the narration, getting to look behind the scenes, we know Jobe is right. At least he’s right in that he is innocent. Is he right in the other. Well, that that remains to be seen. But we know we know that he speaks the truth when he says, I don’t deserve this.

00:22:00:18 – 00:22:23:33
Michael Gewecke
Yeah, I think we can also say confidently, he believes it to be true that he’s a man of integrity and saying something other than this would defy that integrity. I he he thinks that showing up to God and being honest is the thing that’s required. And the charge he would level against his friends is they want him to lie about a thing that is not the truth, so that he can appease that God.

00:22:23:47 – 00:22:46:25
Clint Loveall
Yeah. How many how many modern television shows or movies have been that defendant? And then lawyer tells him, I think you better plead guilty. Yeah, it looks bad for you. And they say, I’m not. I did not do this. I refuse to plead guilty. I think that’s a maybe a modern spin on job situation.

00:22:46:30 – 00:23:08:24
Michael Gewecke
All right. We’re glad that you’re with us today. Hope you’ll join us again as we, make our way into the next speech discourse. That the kind of call and response that’s happening here. I certainly hope there’s something interesting, challenging, encouraging for you in this. Believe it or not, as we’re recording this today, time stamped, we have 1000, 999 subscribers.

00:23:08:24 – 00:23:10:22
Michael Gewecke
So, hit that subscribe button. Maybe you’re.

00:23:10:22 – 00:23:13:24
Clint Loveall
Out there. You haven’t done it. Help us get to 2000.

00:23:13:24 – 00:23:19:37
Michael Gewecke
And, if someday you come back and we’re under 2000. Well, there you go. Anyway, it’s. Thanks for being with us today. We’ll see you next week.